Welcome!

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WHAT IS A BATMAN CHRONOLOGY AND WHY IS IT NECESSARY?

The Real Batman Chronology Project, which started in 2009, tracks the narrative continuity of DC Comics via the lens of Batman, plotting each of his appearances into detailed timelines. To the average comic book reader or especially non-readers, simple questions arise: Doesn’t one just read the comics in the order they are published? Why does there need to be a project dedicated to ordering comics? And if it really is so difficult to figure out a reading order, surely there must be a lot of projects similar to the Real Batman Chronology Project online, right?”

Ultimately, these questions all combine to form the bigger question of “Why is my site necessary?” I’ll try to answer as best as I can. First of all, my site is necessary due to the sheer complexity of how the superhero genre delivers its stories. Superhero universes exist in comics as a vast collection of interconnected serialized fictions. Every Wednesday, dozens of titles come out continuing the story from the previous week’s batch of titles. And all of these titles–week to week, month to month, and so on—tell an ongoing über-story in which the events and characters of said titles all exist in the same shared world, directly influencing each other. (To show how many ongoing titles are released, we can look at a selection of publications from a random Wednesday in 2015: Dark Horse put out 10 comics, DC put out 25, IDW put out 10, Image put out 15, Marvel put out 20, and various indie companies combined to put out 30.) DC and Marvel[1] don’t tell you in what order to read them or how to organize them. Now, to be clear, the Big Two do publish trade paperbacks and their issues are all numbered and can be read in some sort of an order. But when it comes to stitching every title together to make the über-story that tells the whole tale, that is not a task that either company really gets bogged down in. How can all these titles possibly function cohesively? Holistically, the comics form a puzzle and it’s how the pieces fit together that really interests me.

But why Batman? Why is he so important? Well, he’s not just an awesome character. He’s quite popular, in case you didn’t know—he shows up in almost every DC title at some point or another. Batman is the primary lens through which DC Comics has been able to tell a consistent narrative for the past 75 years-plus. Technically, in the DC Universe, everything kind of revolves around the Holy Trinity of Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman—but the Dark Knight of Gotham City seems to be prominently featured a tad more than the others. Therefore, sticking with Batman appearances for this project allows for the easiest opportunity to determine passage of time, character age, where events occur, where things need to be rearranged, how things come together, or how things fail to come together. Of course, a ton of variables have to be considered and the process gets complicated. This is the reason why there are so few attempts at what I’ve done. The few attempts that exist—in niche areas of the Internet and in a few rare books—have either been quickly abandoned or left incomplete. Because Batman’s past is so richly complicated, it has not been successfully evaluated and analyzed from the narratological perspective of serial-continuity. I’m sort of a masochist for continuing my project with such diligence! One of the reasons that the Real Batman Chronology Project has been so successful and has remained the preeminent source of comic book continuity information on the internet is because its foundational focus revolves heavily around simple knowledge and respect for the concept of fictional canon.

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Please click on the following link to continue reading the next part: FICTIONAL CANON: WHAT COUNTS?.

 

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ABOUT THE SITE CREATOR/PROJECT MANAGER:

Collin Colsher is a writer, filmmaker, teacher, and comic book scholar that currently lives and works in Brooklyn, NY. He is the creator of The Real Batman Chronology Project and disCONTINUITY. Collin also serves on the jury for the annual Lynd Ward Graphic Novel Prize, which is sponsored by the US Library of Congress.

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  1. [1] COLLIN COLSHER: I should clarify, when I say “DC” I refer to the corporate beast that is “DC the company.” Same goes for “Marvel.” Unfortunately, the business of comic books has a long documented tradition of screwing over some creators, writers, and artists. The unethical treatment of workers in the comic book “industry” isn’t something that I will tackle very often on this site, but I felt there should be at least something said. All superhero comics, including Batman books, are the products of many different creative minds, but in the end it is the corporate bigwigs, publishers, and editors that control the characters and the worlds in which they live—even if most of the time these said bigwigs, publishers, and editors have contributed little or nothing towards either. Thus, from a narratological perspective, innovation and strong continuity or story development are tough things to achieve in the capitalist consumer-driven market. It’s a sad state of affairs, and probably a topic of discussion for another venue, but it is interesting to see how the hierarchical dynamics of the mainstream superhero comic book genre directly affect how story and character are shaped. On the other hand, to play devil’s advocate for a moment, I love comics. And without Disney, Warner Bros, and other conglomerates, my favorite characters and stories would not exist in the forms they do today. Plus, it is my wholehearted belief that comic book art and stories, despite everything (and despite what Alan Moore says), are evolving for the better every year! So, as you can see, the complexity of the issue only gets more complicated as you peel back layer after layer.

45 Responses to Welcome!

  1. Jeff Richardson says:

    Will you be implementing the Bronze Age stories into the end of the Silver Age timeline? I was also looking things over on the Modern Age timeline and didn’t see a consistent batch of the Batman and the Outsiders series? I saw the first few issues included but then nothing until the issues ranging in the 30’s? Is Batman not featured in between or are the stories just out of continuity?

    • Collin Colsher says:

      The Bronze Age will end the Silver Age, yes. And I include a footnote in Bat-Year Ten that directly addresses the Outsiders. All of those stories coincedentally are Bronze Age tales! Anyway, the reason I only reference a few Outsiders books in Bat-year 10 is because the first 31 issues of the “Batman & The Outsiders” series (which would have fit mostly into this Bat-year) take place BEFORE “Crisis on Infinite Earths.” Therefore, most of them are simply pre-“Crisis” reference materials. As far as I’ve found, only the few issues I’ve listed are the stories that have been canonically referenced in the Modern Age of comics. Issue #32 (in Bat-Year 11) is technically the first post-“Crisis” Outsiders story.

  2. Chris Barr says:

    I just wanted to take a second to thank you for what you are doing here. I’ve been attempting to read Batman chronologically, and your site(s) have proven invaluable in my collector hunts. Cheers!

  3. Evan Hyjurick says:

    Collin, thanks so much for all the hard work you’ve put into your site. I’ve been a big Batman fan for years and am finally getting a good collection of comics together. Great to be able to reference this chronology to see where those comics fit in the scheme of things.

  4. Goodonyou says:

    I love the site. I have a suggestion though: Arrows at the top or bottom of every page to go to the next year of stories. For example, in year six, there would be a back arrow that would bring you to year five and a forward arrow to take you to year seven.

    I know it’s minor but I think it would help. Thanks again for all the hard work!

  5. Boosterrific says:

    I just discovered this site, and I love it. I chronicle Booster Gold appearances, and those alone can be daunting. Ordering Batman appearance is a Sisyphean task, indeed, but you are making it look effortless. Thanks for making the effort.

    • Collin Colsher says:

      Thanks for the support! Your website is pretty amazing too. Booster Gold is (and always has been) one of my favorite characters in the DCU. I’ll post a link to your page up on here.

  6. Monster Zero says:

    Longtime fan here, and when I first heard about the New 52 my thoughts turned to you and what it was going to mean for the BCP! Good to see you’ve been able to survive this DC-inflicted madness 🙂

    I’m running a Catwoman scripted fiction project, and the BCP has been an invaluable resource as we develop plots and storylines for that, so just wanted to say thanks and see you when the new site is up and running.

  7. Chip says:

    I love this site, and it’s a great resource, even for people developing their own chronology of Batman that may not fully match up to yours. As I alluded to in another post, I’m creating my own Batman collection/chronology without using Long Halloween and Dark Victory. They are fine stories, and I like them, but they do prevent a lot of other stories from fitting in, or cause some awkward placement. (Look at the Unofficial DCU Chronology site…he has both stories compressed down to a couple of months and moving scenes all around.)

    So, I might post a comment from time to time asking why an issue might not fit exactly. If you say issue x can’t fit because it contradicts issue y, but I don’t include issue y in my Batman collection, then maybe I could work issue x into it.

  8. Chip says:

    I know the new 52 will be tricky, since they’re saying that post-Crisis stuff “sort of” happened prior to Batman #1.

    Do you think that maybe some of the continuity issues in the last couple of years of post-Crisis/pre-Flashpoint could be eased by moving some of those stories over to new 52 continuity? Basically, I’m looking at Snyder’s Detective run, and how the Gordons’ backstory got butchered. (Great story, but certain details just didn’t fit.)

    • Collin Colsher says:

      Moving stories from the Modern Age to the New 52 Age certainly would ease some of the inconsistent continuity issues of the former. However, I personally would never take the liberty of entertaining such a radical practice. The stories of the Modern Age were meant to take place in the Modern Age (including Scott Snyder’s “Detective” run). The only things that I will place in the New 52 Age will be stories from the New 52 Age AND any references to past tales from previous epochs–but bear in mind, even those references will be notated simply as references, and NOT the actual complete issues from before. Not sure that answers your question, Chip, but that’s pretty much how I’ve been operating in regard to my chronologies, so that is my mentality when it comes to the transition between Modern and New.

  9. dcjokerz17 says:

    It’s a good site with lots of info, but i don’t like your placement of The Long Halloween, you’ve placed it in year 3/4 when it should be in year 2/3, otherwise keep building up this chronology.

    • Collin Colsher says:

      “The Long Halloween” was originally written as the direct follow-up to Frank Miller’s “Year One.” So, originally, it was meant to (and can be read to) take place in Year Two or Year Three. However, the vast voluminousness of Batman “early year stories” spewed forth by DC in the 90s and 00s required the alteration, retconning, or shuffling around of several tales (including “The Long Halloween”) in order to fit with verisimilitude and make the Modern Age chronology capacious enough to withstand it all without continuity errors. You’ll undoubtedly find many comic books on my version of Batman’s Modern Age that are supposed to take place at a certain juncture, but I have fitted them into different spots to make a more legitimate and accurate timeline. Hopefully, I have added footnotes or made mention of such changes throughout the chronology.

  10. Rohan says:

    Is it possible to somehow include major story arcs from the post-crisis DC universe into this chronology? This basically means including issues that do not necessarily have Batman appearing in them like “Superman for all Seasons” and “Green Arrow: Year One” and also missing issues from “The Death and Return of Superman”.

    • Collin Colsher says:

      It is definitely possible–see Chris Miller’s amazing and profoundly seminal work over at the Unauthorized Chronology of the DC Universe (http://dcu.smartmemes.com/). However, I really am just focusing on Batman here. I even omit Bat Family titles if the Caped Crusader fails to appear. It’s not a knock to the other characters; but to add a handful of “major story-arcs” into this chronology would be hard because I feel you either need to pick one character (as I have done) or do a comprehensive all-encompassing list of the whole DCU. Who am I to say what story-arcs are the most important? If I were to begin adding other stories, then it would be wrong of me to leave others out. I do try, though, to add important event items that affect the whole DCU. Maybe I will add a series of footnotes including pertinent info about the goings-on during the “Death and Return of Superman,” “Green Arrow: Year One,” and “Superman For All Seasons.”

      Thanks for your input and comment!

  11. Allie says:

    Hi Collin,

    Would there be any way to put a note in your chronology listings as to what collected edition (if any) a comic book in question belongs? As I’m not hugely knowledgable about comics, it’d be great to know what graphic novel/book that, say, Batman 536 belongs to when I’m following the chronology.
    Thanks so much for establishing and maintaining this site and blog – I’d long been looking for something that could give me direction as to where to start with Batman comics when I stumbled across TRBCP. It’s been very informing and helpful, keep up the great work!

    -Allie

    • Collin Colsher says:

      Dear Allie,

      Thanks so much for the kind words and your continued support of the site! I’ve had a lot of requests lately, among them: adding a downloadable version of the quick lists and making the whole site more navigable in general. Your suggestion is a good one as well, and one that I will add to the list. It’s tough maintaining everything solo, but hopefully in the months to come I can start to take care of some of this business.

      Trade Reading Order.com is a faaaantastic site that lists just about every single trade/collected edition that has ever been published and also gives the info regarding which issues are in which books. In the meantime (before and changes are likely to be seen on my site) I’d suggest perusing over there for some info regarding this specific topic. If and when I do add trade/collected edition information to TRBCP it will likely come straight from that source.

      Take care, Allie. And again, thank you!

      –CC

  12. I’m curious, do you own all of the bat titles, if not how do you go about taking care of all the placement and so on and so fourth?

    • Collin Colsher says:

      Having been a collector for quite a while now (and having had family members that collected for years) I own nearly 100% of the Batman corpus from the Modern Age, which allowed me to complete the Modern Age section mostly from reading actual physical comic book issues and trades. Of course, I don’t have much of the Golden or Silver/Bronze Age stuff—if I did I’d be a millionaire. Thus, torrent downloads of cbr and cbz files are my outlet there. I hope I’m not exposing myself as an illegal downloader, but really the only way to get your hands on some of the older stuff is via digital downloads. (Also, I’m not against downloading stuff purely for research purposes). That being said, I do try my best to purchase (or borrow) some of the Sunday/Dailies trades and Golden Age Batman trades that have been released when I can. Currently, economic times are rough (as we all know) and it’s hard to make ends meet, but I haul my ass over to the comic shop and am able to gather the issues I need for the New 52 stuff.

  13. tiptupjr94 says:

    “Don’t call it a relaunch”

    Why is everyone hellbent on destroying this term? What’s wrong with calling it a relaunch?

    • Collin Colsher says:

      Nothing is wrong with calling it a relaunch. However, the term became maligned in mid 2011 when Dan Didio et al at DC refused to release the details of the upcoming big changes and went so far as to deny that it was a company-wide reboot. As a part of their denial, DC higher-ups were the first to use the word “relaunch” and stress that the September switch to the New 52 was “definitely not a reboot.” As I recall, someone at DC even stated that it wouldn’t even be a “soft-reboot.” BUT, of course the New 52 (for better or worse–personally I like it so far) has been a complete overhaul a la post Crisis on Infinite Earths or the dawn of the Silver Age.

      Hope that explains it a little bit. There’s nothing wrong with the term “relaunch.” It’s the association of that terminology with the lack of complete honesty on the part of DC bigwigs that caused such a negative backlash against it.

  14. Donovan says:

    Just a quick question regarding the website. Do you intend to be covering others within the bat family like you have on your blog? Or are just sticking with the titles that Bruce Wayne has appeared in. You may have managed it offhand somewhere, but I haven’t seen anything. Anyways, great work.

    Oh and as a clarification, I’m talking about the New Age.

    • Collin Colsher says:

      I have been and will continue building the New Age (New 52) chronology based upon the same parameters that I used for constructing the Golden and Modern Age timelines. To clarify, the Modern Age chronology on the blog is the same chronology virtually cut and pasted onto the website. I try not to include any issues that do not include a Batman appearance or reference. That being said, some items are just too damn important to the whole DCU or to the Bat Family to leave out. Thus, those things will be included in some way, shape, or form. If you are interested in the complete arcs of Batwoman, Batgirl, or Nightwing, you’ll just have to turn elsewhere–those issues will not be included if Batman is not directly involved. Luckily, there are a bunch of websites popping up that have been detailing the arcs of other Bat Family members in the New Age–I’m thinking specifically of Aussie Nightwriter’s fantastic Dick Grayson timeline at Dick Grayson Biography.

      Of course, if you have any concerns, questions, or just want to chat, I’m always available! Thanks for your support, Donovan.

      Best,

      Collin C

      • Donovan says:

        Thanks Collin, that pretty well answers my question. I was more thinking to the latter years of the initial Modern Age timeline when there were mentions of Red Robin and Stephanie Brown, along with other books involved with the Bat Family, but I figure without Bruce being around, there were many references about him floating around within each of those books including Batman & Robin, Detective Comics, and the good ole’ Bat Book. Anyways, thanks again for taking your time to respond.

  15. Elliot says:

    Have you considered trying to fit the Batman/Judge Dredd crossovers (Judgement on Gotham, Vendetta in Gotham, The Ultimate Riddle, and Die Laughing) into the chronology? The Ultimate Riddle, the third crossover, refers briefly to Zero Hour, an event which, if I’m not mistaken, occurred only in the “Earth-Prime” reality of the DC Multiverse.

    • Collin Colsher says:

      I hadn’t simply because I haven’t read them. As a big fan of both Batman and old 2000AD stuff, you’d think I would have at some point. But I will look into them. It seems like the Dredd/Batman crossovers make it very clear that the Judges are jumping through time and space from an alternate Earth/dimension to arrive in Gotham. If that is the case (and we ignore some of the unorthodox renditions of certain characters by artists) then I don’t see why we can’t squeeze these tales in. So keep your eyes peeled!

  16. Jonathan Davis says:

    I am reading through your Modern age timeline in its entirety, introductions and all. Post Frank Miller “Batman” is the version of the character that interests me the most, compared to Gold/Silver.

    I understand how certain stories become non-canonical when chronologically-erroneous name-dropping occurs (i.e. Two-Face mentioned at a point in time before he could possibly exist). That much makes sense, although you do seem pretty loose with the instances that you inform the reader to “ignore” these mentionings and those instances which wipe the story from canon altogether. No big deal.

    What I need help with is the following: I don’t understand how the significance of Batman’s suit symbol can make an otherwise “fine” story into one that is non-canonical. Obviously, the suit design is not simply “artistic choice” and is evidence as to something. Is there a chronology/canonicity for the suit designs? Do you have an article detailing this? This would help me a bunch.

    • I usually advise the reader to ignore the incorrect costume if it is drawn in a flashback sequence because it most often means the error was simply made by the artist or writer (as opposed to a non-flashback story deliberately written in “current time” narrative style that gets it definitively wrong)—if that makes any sense. It is a bit confusing, I know. Let me try to explain it in another way. Here is a specific random example: Gotham Knights #43 occurs in Year 18—it absolutely has to for various reasons including publication date, in-story factors, numbering, etc… In this issue there is a flashback, which must be canon since it effetcs a canon issue and is shown in a canon issue. This flashback shows a retired Batgirl take a new Jason Todd Robin out on patrol at the behest of Batman to psychoanalyze him and test his physical capabilities. It also tells us that Joker breaks out of Arkham and foreshadows that he will soon do terrible things to both Babs and Jason. Therefore, this flashback has to take place in Year Eleven, relatively close to the events of Killing Joke and “Death in the Family.” However, by this point, Batman is wearing his yellow-oval costume, and yet in this flashback he has his black bat insignia! Thus, this becomes a prime instance of a canonical flashback where we must ignore the incorrect costume.

      As far as how the significance of Batman’s costume can make an otherwise “fine” story into a non-canonical story, it all depends. Usually, there is something more going on than simply the costume to make it non-canon. If you have specific questions about specific tales in mind, I’d be happy to answer questions regarding them. Shoot me an e-mail at therealbatmanchronologyproject.com if you do have any queries.

      And for the Modern Age there is definitely a chronology/canonicity for the Dark Knight’s suit designs. Batman’s costume definitively goes through many changes, in this order: The black insignia costume with gray tights, the yellow-oval with gray tights, the yellow-oval with black tights, back to the black insignia with gray tights, then the raised-yellow oval with gray tights. Of course, the switch from the original costume to the yellow insignia has had many different time placements and been retconned a bunch, but it always signaled the transition from the Golden Age to the Silver Age. So for the Modern Age, the yellow-oval is kinda-sorta linked to the inception of the Teen Titans. For the intents and purposes of my chronology, everything pre-Titans era is original costume. Following that (in Year Seven) is the yellow-oval period. After “Knight’s End” and returning from the Bane affair, Batman dons an all black (with yellow-oval) ensemble at the end of the “Prodigal” story-arc (in Year Fourteen). He will rock this look until the end of “No Man’s Land,” at which point he returns to his original costume design (in Year Sixteen). When Batman returns from his jaunt through time and starts Batman Inc (in Year Twenty-Two), he will switch to a raised yellow-oval symbol on gray set of togs.

      And Jonathan, always remember, this is a suggested chronology. There can never really be the exact dead-on version. Everyone is free to mold their own timeline and pick and choose as they see fit. But hopefully, this is as close as anyone has ever gotten (and ever will)! And hopefully this is the numero uno reference point for any other lists out there!

  17. Andy Smith says:

    I was intrigued to read about your take on the costume/insignia and its effect on chronology and canonicity (probably not a real word but you know what I mean). I agree that it’s undoubtedly a useful indicator for story placement, especially where other evidence is lacking. However, my take is that any individual book (and by extension any individual panel) is just a representation of the “reality” of the DC Universe (whichever one it happens to be). For instance, I’ve been reading “Wargames” in order, and the change in art styles between, say, “Detective” and “Batgirl” is dramatic – in one, Batgirl (Cassandra) looks like the perviest thing you’ve ever seen, and in the other she looks cute as a button. Both issues are clearly canonical (at least within the overall arc) despite one or both clearly not representing “reality”. The characters obviously don’t live their “real” lives as a series of static images with bubbles coming out of their mouths. I think of it like Julius Schwartz channelling the original Flash and turning his adventures into a comic which was read by Barry Allen (which was a stroke of storytelling genius in my opinion, decades before everyone was dropping the word “postmodern” into every conversation). We’re not seeing a reality, but a retelling/reinterpretation of that reality.
    Factual/timeline inconsistencies are a different issue, and I appreciate your point that the costume alone isn’t usually enough to discount a story. However, I don’t think an inconsistency (or a downright error) should necessarily discount a story from canon either. For instance, I’m a fan of Doctor Who, mainly the original 26-year run (I’m going to assume you’re not familiar with it; if you are then you probably know where this is going…) Clearly every story that was shown on TV during that run is canon; removing almost any given story would have a house of cards effect on the rest (arguments will rage for eternity over whether to include the hundreds of books, comics, audio plays etc). However, there are massive inconsistencies within just the TV show which make it impossible for events to all have happened as shown. For instance, in a mid-seventies story a certain character is clearly established as being a high-ranking officer in a UN military organisation in 1980, but in a mid-eighties story is seen retired from the military and visibly older in 1977. Theoretically you could pretend that the later story doesn’t count and never happened because a different production team made a mistake (or wilfully ignored continuity for the sake of telling their story) , but the fact remains that at the time of production both the stories were meant to be part of the ongoing tale (and it can be argued that it was in fact the earlier of the two stories that got it wrong). There are whole books dedicated to trying to resolve this and many other problems, and they all fail (or at least cheat outrageously). The only truly workable explanation is that we are seeing an interpretation of a different reality, not that reality itself. There are endless other examples; Doyle’s Sherlock Holmes has a handful of timeline problems, but it all still counts; the New Testament has two very contradictory accounts of the birth of Jesus, but are both considered canonical (which is I think is where the term originates); any TV or film series that has recast a character has a problem akin to that of a change in art style; Dr No and Skyfall can’t both be about the “real” James Bond, but both are unquestionably canon.
    So I suppose my argument is that unless a story is clearly meant or stated to be outside of continuity, then why not include it? Point out any issues with continuity, and if it can’t be explained or retconned away, then it can be put down to an error on the part of the creatives who reinterpreted the events of the DC Universe(s) for those of us unfortunate enough to live in the real one. My final point is that whatever your intentions people will use your work as a reading guide (I know I do); to that end it makes sense to me to throw out as little as possible.
    Anyway, feel free to completely ignore my little essay and keep up the great work. Been getting into comics and Batman specifically after a long break (I used to rely on http://dcu.smartmemes.com/index.html to help me make sense of it all but he’s stopped unfortunately).

    • Dear Andy,

      Thanks for your support and kind words! I would never ignore such a well-thought out and insightful comment. And as far as “The Unauthorized Chronology of the DCU” goes, it was originally my primary source when I started this mess five years ago. (I’ve corresponded with site author Chris Miller before as well—I believe he stopped because he is in the process of getting his PhD).

      As I always say, continuity is in the eye of the beholder, so to speak. We all create our own personal continuities and the beautiful thing is that we can never really be wrong. I’ve tried to include as many stories as possible—I agree with you when you say that all stories that aren’t explicitly meant to be out-of-continuity should therefore be IN-continuity. I’ve tried to stick to that concept while building my timelines, although my natural stubbornness probably has a significant effect in what gets left in and left out. I’m sure others are more willing to accept stories as canon—ones which I haven’t, while others still are upset with the stories I have chosen to include.

      It’s funny you mention Skyfall too. Skyfall is the perfect example of everything I love about comics—seamlessly folding in bits of old continuity into new continuity, meshing an older version of a character’s history with the new. Except in this case, the problem (for me) with Skyfall is that it isn’t a comic book, it’s a movie, and one which I had always regarded the same way Alan Moore playfully does—as a chain of decidedly different British agents “filling the Bond role” over time. The Broccoli family seemed to quietly share that same view for decades, until the Craig films, of course. That’s precisely why Skyfall was so amazing yet baffling and frustrating for me. You are absolutely right, the very smarmy Scottish Bond seen in Dr. No who drives the trick-gun-equipped Aston Martin could never in a billion years be the ice cold decidedly not-Scottish badass from Casino Royale. And yet they are one and the same thanks to Skyfall! I’m digressing a bit (or a lot) here, but the Skyfall example is something so intrinsically linked to narratological issues stemming from comic book type continuity, I’m surprised there aren’t more write-ups about it.

      Anyway, thanks for taking the time to say hi and to give a wonderful piece of your mind. Not sure if this has been an adequate response, but I hope it is!

      Best,

      Collin C

      PS. Canonicity is indeed a REAL word and one I use far, far too often!

      • Andy Smith says:

        Cheers Collin – thanks for the kind words also, and your considered response.
        You’re right about Skyfall (and the Craig films generally) as they do somewhat scupper the fan favourite theory. No one really minds because everyone liked the movie – I suspect if it had been terrible lots of fans would be declaring it a non-canonical abomination. But of course you can’t use quality as an indicator (and I’m glad to see that you don’t, tempting as it must be at times).
        But you’re right – canon is whatever you want it to be, there are no rules apart from the ones you impose on yourself. The great thing about very long running series is that there will always be bits you love and bits you hate, bits that you think count and bits that don’t. And if you find yourself spending time thinking about it all (and in your case writing about it), then you’ve found something you love and find interesting and helps make you happy, which can be no bad thing.
        Andy

  18. Hi Elliot. While the Judge Dredd and Marvel crossovers both distinctly explain and show that the respective crossovers are happening as a result of some interdimensional transfer/cosmic scy-fy device within their narratives, the Dark Horse crossovers do not. In contrast, all the Batman vs Predator/Alien story arcs are written as though the Predators/Aliens exist in the same shared universe as Batman. Of course, this is not true.

    Aliens, Predator, Grendel, Hellboy, The Ghost, Terminator, The Mask, SpyBoy, and even Tarzan have all crossed-over with DC characters, but these crossovers were all meant to occur out-of-the continuities of both DC and Dark Horse proper—with special exceptions of course (in the pages of Grendel, for example, Batman’s breaking of Grendel’s arm is canon). Don’t forget, unlike Image, Marvel, or DC, Dark Horse functions less as “a model for an interweaving multiverse” and more of a general corporate publishing umbrella, handling multiple character properties more like a regular book company rather than like a superhero comic book company. Furthermore, Batman vs Predator (and its various sequels and spinoffs) are all considered non-canon according to AlienVersusPredator Wikia, ComicVine, and Poe Ghostal’s popular blog. But if that isn’t good enough for ya, try this. In the first book (from which all the others spawn from), the Mayor of Gotham is killed by a Predator, something that definitely can’t be canon in the DCU. Hope that clears things up!

  19. Zachary Freeman says:

    Hi there,

    I have been trying to locate video of the original 1999 premiere of Batman Beyond. Just before the show began there was a short introduction video containing video from the Tim Burton movies as well as video from the animated series. There was a naration that went something like this “Hero, Legend.. for years….. tonight Kids WB takes you into the future…”

    I would greatly appreciate any help you can give me in finding this video. I thought you might be exactly the person to ask.

    all the best
    Zach

  20. Jose Rodriguez says:

    I hate to bring you band news but– DC Comics never thought a reading order because Batman is a work of fiction write by many authors. Continuity can change easily, stories can be contradicted easily, new authors reimagine old stories, etc. Don’t loose your time trying to find the secret behind these comics, just enjoy them.

    • Why are you TROLLING my site, dude? Go away.

      • OR better yet, Jose, stay a while and tell me (if you have the capability to articulate) exactly why YOU enjoy superhero comics? One of the things that makes superhero comic books special is that they take place in environments where world-building is essential. Things change, characters DEVELOP, arcs make an impact. These things happen over LONG periods of time and dramatically effect the direction of our favorite heroes, groups, stories, and entire universes. How can one REALLY enjoy any of these things without paying attention to the details? That’s most of the fun for me these days! Even if a comic is sub-par (and there are plenty of those in 2014) I’ll stick around because there is something worthwhile in the fact that a creator or group of creators is placing it onto a timeline, joining it into a shared mythology, making it part of a Continuity Family. And then you the reader can make a map! And who doesn’t love a puzzle? And who doesn’t love cartography? And furthermore, how can any author script truly enjoyable superhero stories (or as Neil Gaiman used to say “have fun playing in the sandbox”) if he or she is not totally in-tune with the toys that exist in said sandbox? Continuities DO change, but if there wasn’t the most incredible attention to detail being paid by editors, writers, and FANS in the first place, these continuities wouldn’t exist in the first place. And then we’d have no comics that you claim to enjoy.

        I stopped enjoying comics for the simple pleasure of looking at random pictures, word balloons, flashy costumes, and visualized fisticuffs when I was 12-years-old. And that’s not to say that I don’t enjoy the sheer fun of what sci-fi action has to offer. But frankly, your comment is not only baffling (and, yes, also TROLLING), but also makes me think that you have very little to no grasp on the real reasons the Superhero Comic is an amazing, deep, and beautiful literary genre. It’s comments like “just enjoy them” that do a disservice to the genre and unknowingly pejoratively relegate the genre back to the status it had decades ago as nothing more than trash for delinquent kids.

        The Superhero Comic is only as good as its Continuity. Hell, the Superhero Comic IS Continuity. If you don’t agree with that, then I don’t know why you are here, good sir.

  21. Man-Bat6789 says:

    Hello, I want to say I am looking forward to reading these timelines and remember we must all be vegetarians because of the dark beef (Batcow)

  22. Rebel says:

    Hi Collin – pretty awesome that this has been going on now near 6 years and thank you for all the hard work. Just a couple quick questions:

    1. Where did the updates section go? I used to be able to tell when and which updates you made and now i can’t seem to find it.

    2. Are you still updating the site? Understandably TRBCP/’disContinuity’ Blog is being continuously updated and has great stuff but haven’t seen much movement on the Silver Age and cant tell if you have made any new discoveries/changed anything around in the Modern Age in the last couple months.

    As always, great work and hope that that ‘updates’ section can be re-introduced (or you can provide a link as i simply cannot find it) and that if, understandably, you are stepping away from updating TRBCP that hopefully somone will don the cape, cowl, and keyboard that you have been wearing/wielding these last 6 years.

    • Hey Rebel,

      I got rid of the updates page because it wasn’t giving much specific information and it wasn’t being kept up to date (which is terrible for an “updates” page). I am definitely updating the site still. There hasn’t been much to add or correct on the Modern Age section. And the Silver Age has been going slow. We had a terrible site crash and lost some info in the Silver Age section (even despite having had everything backed up multiple ways). Hopefully, the Silver Age will get rolling again—it is frustrating to have to re-write chunks of it, though.

      I will look into better means of keeping my readers and patrons up to date on the latest site changes. Like I said, I think what was up before was simply inadequate.

      Thanks for your continued support.

  23. Andy G. says:

    Keep up the great work man. Still my go to site for chronology!

  24. Zak says:

    Hey man. First off, tremendous job on this site! Quite possibly my favorite comics-related web site of all time. Second, with DC launching their Rebirth Series soon, will you be starting to make a new time line to accommodate that (The Rebirth Age?)? Thank you and keep up the great work.

    • Thanks for your very kind words, Zak. Comments like these keep me going strong after all these years.

      If Rebirth functions similarly to the way Zero Hour or Infinite Crisis did—as line-wide SOFT reboots, then I will simply continue the New Age timeline. I’m not sure that any major retcons are happening that would constitute a new timeline, although the Justice Society being folded back into Earth-0 history seems pretty major. Things may be “returning to their roots” (aka lining up with the cinematic universe a bit more and giving us a more Geoff Johns Modern Age feel), but so far as I have heard, this soft reboot will not jettison the continuity that has been built up since 2011, meaning that Rebirth shouldn’t be a massive total relaunch. That being said, we shall see…

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